Chase Sui Wonders
and
Jeannie Sui Wonders

On a swampy summer morning, the sisters Jeannie and Chase Sui Wonders descend on Cecconi’s, a classic Italian restaurant at the Ned NoMad Hotel in Manhattan. Jeannie arrives first, dressed in vintage Anna Sui, and orders a green juice, having Citi Biked over from her apartment. Chase rolls in a few minutes later, sporting wet hair, an orange sweater and capris. The two see each other and squeal, even though they had seen each other the previous night at a screening of Ang Lee’s Lust, Caution at Metrograph.

Jeannie, 32, is a writer, director and photographer who has worked with designers such as Sandy Liang and Anna Sui (that’s Aunt Anna to her and Chase) to render their aesthetic worlds on film. Her short film, Moon Lake (starring Chase), was nominated for the Orizzonti Award at last year’s Venice International Film Festival. Chase, 29, is an actor known for her appearances in movies such as Bodies Bodies Bodies and I Know What You Did Last Summer and TV shows such as The Studio, the Seth Rogen-created satire that functions as both an ode to and a send-up of Tinseltown. (It recently received 23 Emmy nominations, the joint record for most nominations ina single year.) Both graduated from Harvard, where I encountered them more than a decade ago. Even in college, the sisters were sinusoidal waves, moving in tandem, overlapping, sometimes careening in different directions. Jeannie was on the board of the Harvard Advocate magazine (with me), and Chase joined the tech crew of the Hasty Pudding Theatricals, where (as she reminds me at breakfast) she met my husband before I did. Later, she made it into The Harvard Lampoon, the famous humour periodical that counts Conan O’Brien, BJ Novak and John Updike as alumni. Save for a few accidental meetings, we had not seen each other since.

Mattie: I’m so glad to have this excuse to catch up. I’m not sure how much of a decade we can cover, but let’s start even before that. You both grew up in Detroit, Michigan. Do you make it back there a lot?

Chase: I’m going back next week. It still feels like home. Our mom is in the same house we grew up in; our older brother lives in the same building as me in New York, which is so fun, but our oldest brother is in Detroit. Our mom loves it there, and she helps him with his kids. I mean, when I have a baby, I will probably move back home.

Jeannie: Can’t say the same. I feel like I dreamed about New York when I was growing up. I feel like I longed for it. We came when we were kids with our Aunt Anna, which was a very glamorous version of New York. And our dad was here, too.

C: I always wanted to get out. It’s a real suburban bubble, which in my youth I found eternally angsty. It made me so claustrophobic. But as I’ve grown up, I’m like, That’s the right pace of life.

M: So you knew New York before you moved here.

C: Our dad moved here when we were young, after our parents split up. We’d visit him, and on those trips he didn’t quite know how to connect, so he would take me to see plays. That was part of the inception of, like, “Oh, acting. This is kind of cool.” I remember we saw Once, and Cristin Milioti was in it. I saw her recently at the Gotham Awards, and I told her this story. She was like, “No one ever talks to me about Once!”

M: Did you know then that you wanted to be an actor? Or did that come later?

C: That was an initial seed, but there were many of those. Our childhood vacations consisted of taking a digital camera and utilising being “on location” at, like, the ruins in Guatemala that our mom would take us to. We would be making action movies where we were drug lords smuggling things through Tikal.

J: And we would get the security guards – who had machine guns! – to be part of it. We would cast them. It was called A Trivial Exclusion. They were fun to make.

M: Where did you learn to love movies like that?

C: Our dad was obsessed with movies. His love language was bringing home a $5 bin of DVDs.

J: We had an insane DVD collection of a lot of bad movies, but also a lot of good movies. The Oliver Stone movie The Doors. Rat Race, which we loved. An entire Ken Russell box set. We just connected to it. And we kept doing it. We went to Africa, to Tanzania and Kenya, one summer when I was in college. I borrowed a camera. It was a Sony, and big but very light.

C: And our brother was working a marketing job in Hong Kong, and he borrowed a camera from the camera department. Another time, we made a continent-spanning movie epic that we shot in Russia, Guatemala and Michigan. It’s really bad, to be clear. But really good.

J: We watched it over Christmas, actually, and it does kind of hold up. It was a heist movie, with lots of action and death. There’s one scene where my little cousin, who was about eight, plays a spy.

C: It’s a total capsule in time to watch, and it’s fun to show it to our nephews and niece, who are now making movies of their own.

M: Chase, with the success of The Studio, are you feeling pressure to move to LA?

C: I’m feeling pressure to retreat to the woods and become a hermit, but I feel zero pressure to go to LA. There’s a bit of a feeling of the collapse of civilisation in LA. There is a case to be made for just meeting people there and doing the whole networking rigmarole, but I feel much more creatively invigorated by what’s happening in New York. The Studio films in LA, so I go for that, and that’s a really iconic LA experience. But I do tend to leave when I’m not needed for a long weekend.

J: I feel a bit like you’re play-acting while you’re there. You’re play-acting someone who lives in LA.

C: One hundred per cent. I can’t go to LA unless I’m Quinn Hackett from The Studio.

M: And you, Jeannie? Does it feel as if LA is still the centre of filmmaking?

J: I feel no pressure. I’m surrounded by people who are making their future in New York, and it’s exciting. And LA feels like a sad place to be striving, whereas in New York, to be striving and to be making movies is so exciting.

M: The desperation feels different.

C: I think it’s because in LA everyone wants the same thing. There’s a size-up that happens there that doesn’t happen in New York.

M: Do you think it’s because in New York there are more ways to be cool?

C: There are more ways to have a job. And in LA, social interaction is often confused. The line between work and play is totally blurred, and the play is often work.

J: Well, it’s blurred here, too. But I saw a restoration of Christiane F. at Lincoln Center recently. It was made in 1981, and it’s about a girl who falls in love with David Bowie’s music and ends up getting into heroin. It’s sad, but the movie was incredible. And after it ended, all the people who were there just stood on the street after, talking about it. I saw it with a friend, and we got drinks. It just felt like, Where else?

M: Jeannie, I have vague memories of meeting you when we were both freshmen. I had been nervous about Harvard, but I was surprised to find that it was actually incredibly fun. Had it been a dream to go there?

J: Going to a good school, yes. Going to Harvard? I didn’t know that I would get in. And I didn’t know what I would do after. I knew I might want to do something creative, but I didn’t understand that I could be a filmmaker. I had planned to study archaeology. I loved history, and our mom had taken us to all these ancient sites. In the end, I did art history and wrote my thesis on Mesoamerican sculpture and colour, so I wasn’t totally far off.

M: I think when people hear about Harvard there’s a sense that it has this tremendous mystique. But then you get there and people are – for the most part – utterly normal. What I do think is true is that the people are ambitious.

C: People are ambitious, and people are competitive, and that is a driver of a certain energy.

J: The archetypes there are different, too. In high school the cool, popular girls would pretend they weren’t interested in anything. At Harvard the cool, popular girls would be, like, gifted piano players. It was cool to have depth.

M: It was important to care a lot about something.

C: It was lame not to. It was a scary place. I felt a tremendous amount of pressure, because our older brother went and then Jeannie went. Our parents didn’t graduate, and in terms of academics they were both very intense. So I was like, If I don’t get in, I am a total failure. There was one semester of high school where my grades were slipping, and I was so stressed. I would tell my mom, “You know what? I don’t even want to go to Harvard. I want to go to the University of Hawaii.” I was adamant about it. But then in my sophomore year of high school we did a wilderness trip, and you had to be in the woods alone. I have my diary from that trip, and I wrote, “Obviously, my deepest, darkest desire is to go to Harvard.” And then I got in. It was a huge relief.

M: Then you got in. You joined the Hasty Pudding. You got into The Harvard Lampoon, which happens to be headquartered in a distinctive mansion.

C: Yes. I was surprised. I had written some good pieces, but it was a surprise.

M: You must have known you were funny?

C: No.

J: What! In the family Chase was always the funny one.

C: It’s true, I wanted to get into the Lampoon because I was like, Ooh, it’s a secret castle. After, I realised the Lampoon is a place where if you say something and it’s not funny you will not receive pity laughs. You will not get polite laughs. You are really bullied into “You don’t say a bit unless it’s going to crush in the room.” It’s just the riff zone all the time.

M: Sounds stressful.

C: It was, but it was a good training ground. Especially for The Studio. I don’t feel bullied like I did at the Lampoon, but I still have that response. It’s adrenaline, and it’s part of the fun. Because if you say something and you crush, it’s the best feeling in the world.

M: The show is known for its “oners” – continuous takes that require so much coordination. If you improvise, you really can’t bask in your joke. Because the scene just keeps going.

C: I did bask one time, which was a big mistake. I broke in front of Ron Howard, and it was so embarrassing. There’s a scene where I have to fawn over Anthony Mackie’s character, and I started laughing at myself. Ron Howard was looking at me like “Why did you do that?” It was horrible. He’s a nice man. It was just that he was so locked in. And I was not.

M: Do you feel as if there are still different standards for men and women in comedy?

C: I have definitely felt that in the past. I’ve done little parts on various comedy sets, and I’ve felt like, Oh, there’s kind of only one way for a girl to be funny here. A comedian once told me, “Well, you’re pretty, so you can’t be pretty and funny. You have to pick one.” What an absolute douche.

J: This was a guy?

C: It was a guy. It’s a testament to Seth [Rogen] and Evan [Goldberg], because they really spotted the freak in me, especially after hanging out with me outside of work a couple times. I would become the butt of a joke, and then that came into play on set. They’d be like, “Do that weird thing you do! Be really weird, you little freakazoid!”

M: Jeannie, what are you working on right now?

J: I’m writing. I’m in production on a feature I’ve been working on for years and years and years. It’s called More Perfect. I don’t want to say much about it, but I can say that I cold-emailed the script to the French cinematographer Hélène Louvart, who is my favorite DP. She read it, and then we spoke, and it feels like we have the same brain. She’s going to do it, and it makes the movie feel real now. So more on that soon. And then – I think I’m allowed to talk about this? I’m also writing a feature for Harris Dickinson. So that’s the summer: writing this movie. I’m very excited about it. It’s set in the world of teens. He’s producing, and I’m directing. It feels like jinxing it to share too much. When I’m working on something it’s this precious ember, and I want to protect it.

M: Are either of you surprised by what the other is doing?

J: Not at all. Chase was always a star. I remember when she was, like, four, she did a Shrek impression. We all watched Shrek in theatres, and she recited this line from it – she could quote the whole movie, you know – and I remember our mom was like, “Chase is going to be a star.” And I was shaking, because I could feel it.

C: I don’t remember this! That’s nice. Jeannie was incredibly creative and had such an eye for visuals and aesthetics. I was always copying whatever creative thing she was doing. You would turn around and Jeannie would be making a beautiful sculptural piece out of a straw wrapper and bits of whatever. She was always making little movies with her friends, and stop-motion videos.

M: Do you want to work more together, or are you happy to be in your own lanes?

J: I think we each have our lanes, but Chase is going to be in my movie.

M: Are you going to take direction well from her?

C: I think I take direction from Jeannie well!

J: Really well.

C: She’s helped me with my self-tapes over the years. It’s nice, because she’ll just be like, “That was bad,” and I can take it on the chin.

M: Is it hard to pick projects?

C: Yes. The Studio is a unicorn in a sea of a lot of bad stuff. The thing that has changed for me is I used to get stuff and I would be like, Oh my God! The chance to act! And now I have more of the luxury of being like, Oh, this is probably not how I want to spend my time. I can be a little more choosy. But then every so often… In fact, I just read one of the best scripts I’ve ever read. It’s so good. It’s unlike anything I’ve ever read. And I’ve just heard that I got it!

M: You’ve both worked with Sofia Coppola. How did you meet her?

C: Sofia is friends with my aunt, and they’ve known each other forever, since their early days in New York in the 1990s. Jeannie and I have both emailed her throughout our lives. I emailed her for advice after graduating college. We’re both obsessed with all her movies.

J: I met her at one of my aunt’s shows. We’ve just seen her over the years. I think the first time I was conscious of who she was was when I was in middle school and a big
fan of Marie Antoinette.

C: I brought her to the Harvard Film Archive to screen The Beguiled.

M: Which you worked on, Jeannie.

J: Which I worked on, as her assistant. I was living in LA, working for Roger Corman, and had just wrapped a movie with him. But I didn’t know you did that!

C: And then I toured her through the Lampoon and brought her to all the clubs. And then after that she cast me in a Calvin Klein underwear video, which was so crazy. She was like, “This is going to do a lot for your campus rep.” And honestly, it did. But when it went up, all the comments on Instagram were like, “Oh my God! Thank God for a normal girl.” “This is so refreshing!” “Good thing she ate a sandwich before this.” I was like, “Thanks…”

C and J (in unison): “Thicc is future!”

C: That’s the one comment that really stuck.

M: What do you think is Sofia’s particular power?

J: It’s so subtle. It’s not like she’s giving notes on every little thing
or micromanaging. She holds back.

C: She’s totally in her feminine energy, and she’s not a motormouth. She’s very intentional about what she says. She’s deliberate, and she means it. So when she does interject you lean in to hear it.

J: She has this soft power. There is no yelling. Everyone on The Beguiled was like, “This is the best set I’ve ever worked on.”

M: Have either of you worked on sets that are toxic?

C: Toxicity usually comes from the actors. It’s a totally unnatural way of being. People ask to pick up your trash for you. You have a huge crew, and they’re all there to watch you do some microexpression through a lens. I think it’s why a lot of people become zombies. It’s just a fast lane to diva behaviour.

J: But at the same time, you are putting your heart on the line. And as a director who asks people to do that, I do have empathy. You’re the one who has to get vulnerable. You’re the one who has to be emotional on camera.

C: I worked with an intimacy coordinator early on who taught me what’s called closure tactics. It sounds really stupid, but you go into the day and you look in the mirror, and you’re like, “You’re going to have a great day of work today. What’s about to happen is not real. You’re going to crush it, and I’ll see you at the end of the day.” It sounds so woo-woo.

M: It doesn’t sound so woo-woo to me.

J: It’s about setting an intention, and it works.

M: You have to keep it up, too. How do you ensure that you stay grounded enough to enjoy a long career?

C: There are reminders of the dangers constantly, and that helps. I experience it on jobs every day. There are just certain moments where it’s like, Well, that’s not normal.

J: For directors I think it’s easier. It’s more about setting a tone. Your energy is really dictating the energy of the set, so it’s really important to be locked in. If you’re stressed and anxious, that’s going to trickle down to other people too.

M: Do you like being the boss?

J: I don’t think in those terms. I think of it like: I’m serving whatever it is that I’m trying to make. It scared me at first, but now it feels natural.

M: We talked a bit about what it’s like for Chase to be a woman in comedy. Jeannie, do you think there’s something unique about being a woman director? Is it something you spend time thinking about?

J: I’m not delusional about the state of the industry, but I don’t focus on it. I don’t think it’s necessarily helpful or productive. It doesn’t move me forward. But I love films about women, and I love women’s perspectives. I love so many female directors not because they’re female but because they make movies that feel new. It’s exciting to see things we haven’t seen before. It feels fresh. I do like that.

M: What’s the best advice you’ve had recently?

J: I ran into Vincent Gallo on the street, which is crazy. But Vincent Gallo said to me, “When you’re making a movie, it’s this thing that’s behind a curtain. You can’t see it, but you have to believe that it’s there and believe that it’s real. You have to have blind faith that it will take shape. You have to trust that.” That’s been a helpful guiding principle.

C: That’s a good one. I think it’s less about advice and more just setting a good example. On the set of The Studio, Seth will laugh anytime anyone makes a mistake. Even if they’re messing up the entire take, he will laugh and laugh and laugh. He’s like, “Because it’s really awkward!” It’s his very gentle way of cushioning everything.

J: That’s very sweet.

C: You feel like you’re falling down on a little cloud.